[Ziggy]

Who do you think signed this bill? A Monkey?

[JonnyFiveAlive]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

we haven't had one single terrorist attack on the U.S. that was on the same scale.

That's not attributable to Bush, as his administration has done more to wreck our counter-terrorism efforts than help them.

The fool (Bush) fired his National Security Adviser, Richard Clarke, the man who knew the most about Al Qaeda.

A recent interview with Richard Clarke:
"If you look at the number of terrorist attacks that have happened in the 36 months since 9/11, it's double the number of terrorists attacks compared to the three years prior to 9/11.

If you look at the number of people around the world supporting the jihadist movement, most people think it's up significantly in the last two years.

So I know of no real measure that suggests to me that we are doing well.

I would rather look at the Al Qaeda network or the jihadist movement which is probably 12 to 14 individual groups around the world.

I think Iraq has served to strengthen the motivation of those dozen or so groups around the world, and I think there are two elements fighting the Americans in Iraq.

One are some small number of foreign terrorists, probably in the hundreds, who have come into Iraq from these various jihadist movements, from the Al Qaeda-related groups, but the mass number, the largest number of people fighting the Americans are Iraqis who should be seen rather as Iraqi nationalists, rather than Al Qaeda.

Number one, it has diverted US focus that should have been going after Al Qaeida.

Number two, the war in Iraq has diverted US resources, money that should have been spent to increase our defences at home.

And number three, it has given this increased momentum, ideological support to the jihadists all over the world.

So it's the exact opposite thing from what the United States should have done following 9/11.

When the Bush Administration does something right, I'm the first to say that it has done something right.

Unfortunately in the war on terrorism, they've done very little right."

(Full interview text here)

Instead of attacking terrorists he just attacks our civil liberties. America is certainly not safer, as this President (and his cronies) aren't capable of conducting intelligent foreign policy. Hopefully we'll elect someone who can fix the ridiculous mess we're in.

Learn from this man

[Ziggy]

I'm not a soldier. I'm not in congress. And I'm sure as hell not interested in fighting an administration that knows a hell of a lot more than I do about foreign policy.

[Ziggy]

If you know so much about what you think America is doing wrong, then why aren't you doing something about it?

[JonnyFiveAlive]

I am, I'm supporting candidates that know how to build a future and a foreign policy and trying to educate a friend :-)

[Bowzer]

Anyone that employees Jimmy Johnson is a joke in my opinion(Fox just happens to at this moment). Earlier this season Johnson showed his stupidity when he honestly asked the question "who is South Florida?".....This man calls himself a professional sports commentator and fan????

[JonnyFiveAlive]

And Jimmie Johnson was even employed in South Florida as the Dolphins' head coach! He should know better.

[Ziggy]

Basically, what i want to say here is that no one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes in some other's eyes....there's just too much policy to control. On one hand we have shortages in surpluses, the other enviromentalists. We have atrocities in foreign countries, but then we have people that are against a policing government.

For a while there I was beginning to think that all people are hypocrites, and that may be true. I just got a little miffed at you Jon because I saw 9/11 and voted for Bush because I thought that he would stop the terrorist attacks. I even told my brother the day we voted for him that. And I was right, so it kind of miffs me to hear people bash Bush when he was the first modern-day president to fight a war on his own soil and win.

The enormous amount of pressure put on a man like him would make just about anyone stumble for words and say things that to us would seem stupid.

But as for the facts, in the spirit of this forum, and in the defense of the Bush administration, I will post the most obvious facts.

1. We have not had one more 9/11 since 9/11.
2. Our major economic center was destroyed- and our economy remained stable. Gas prices have risen little if any since the attacks.
3. Border controls and illegal immigrant laws are as staunch as ever, stopping terrorist movement within our boundaries of country.
4. Our modern warfare and development of new weapons has made us the most advanced military in history, and we defeated Saddam Hussein, an obvious comrade of terrorist organizations around the middle east and oil Nazi (please forgive me the racial slur)
5. Less Americans died in Operation Iraqi freedom that in probably any other war.
6. More people were liberated in Operation Iraqi freedom than possibly any other war.

Kids today just don't have the proper mindset and allegiance for their country. I even don't. It is our right to question our president, and even possibly impeach him for wrongdoings, but what good does dissention in our country do for our strength? I challenge anyone to stand next to an American soldier and run their mouth about how our country does this or that wrong.A soldier would tell you it's all about the greater good, and I think they would lose respect in the long run for someone who questions a government that they fought for.

A person with no respect for his or her own liberty is oblivious to thier own freedom, and does not stand for a common movement towards peace, fighting a war within themselves for recognition of thier words with little or no personal action to reinforce their beliefs. Today's kids may feel lost or in the underground because while they are outspoken against their country they still have little effect on the world scheme, and do not contribute themselves, being trapped within a social system they despise. If they would just do good, based on what they believe in (Like planting a tree if they were enviromentalists) instead of challenging a system already spread thin financially in thier endeavors to satisfy different groups, they would find a confidence in their actions and would no longer feel like an outsider within the group for their beliefs.

What's sad is some kids who feel lost do not even realize the scope at which America gives and is proactive about different issues! There's so many of them to delegate towards that I could not list them all on this page. And while they fight within themselves to make their voice heard, some don't even realize that their voice will become a catalyst towards major change- if they want it to. I myself want to help causes and do well, but that ultimately takes money. Sure, one can volunteer at the soup opera around fairmont here, but buying a pound of potatoes is doing more good than volunteering where there is little goods. Take for example the Extreme Home Makeover crew in Fairmont: There's a case of where volunteering does some good, because the system is already set up and is financially secure enough to create change that doesn't require a person to feel pity or feel sorry for the family. If I had to feed bums all day I would probably just make them feel worse. Compassion is relative, I believe.

But getting back to FOX news: I think that if they were a responsible and honest news crew that more Americans would know the truth lies not in just their idealized minds, but with others, which could make a positive change. The sad part is yellow journalism has been practiced for decades, and even though slander laws have been put in effect they still have a right to say whatever they want. That doesn't mean that I have to like them, though.

Here's a good quote for everyone out there:

"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."


-Clarence Darrow

[Ziggy]

Jon, what do you know about him? My history professor likes him as a candidate for the 2008 election and says that he is a radical. Knowing my teacher's views, and since i respect him, I'll probably vote Richardson in 2008. Is there anything you can find wrong with him?

[JonnyFiveAlive]

First, I'd love to respond to your big long post, but dont have the energy right now.

I like what I've heard from Richardson, in the end if we want to vote for someone who can win we'll probably have to vote Hillary or Obama. I'm a pretty hard-line democrat (I'm sure you couldnt tell) but if Ron Paul looked like he had a chance I'd give him my vote.

I wish Dennis Kucinich had a chance because his views are in-line with mine moreso than any other candidate. So, I support him. I have respect for anyone who doesnt dance around debate questions, so I respect Richardson as well as Kucinich.

If you feel like watching:
YouTube - Kucinich's replies @ Aug. 7, '07 Dem. Pres. Debate